Subject: Coalition’s commitment to age verification for social media
E&OE…
Laura Jayes: South Australia is going to forge ahead with its plan to ban young children from accessing social media platforms like Facebook, TikTok and Instagram. Under the proposed laws, tech giants could face tough penalties if they let anyone under the age of 14 create an account. But just how easy will this be to enforce? Joining me now is the Shadow Communications Minister, David Coleman. David, answer that question. How easy or hard will it be for Malinauskas to forge ahead with this?
David Coleman: Yeah, well look what South Australia’s done on the enforcement side, Laura, is very similar to legislation we’ve seen around the world, which is basically to give the regulator power to put in place standards and rules and then require the social media companies to follow those rules. The UK has done something very similar with pornography. US States have done something very similar and other European countries have passed legislation as well. So whilst the Coalition supports a ban at 16 rather than 14, we do welcome the South Australian Government actually getting on with it. What we’re seeing with the Federal Government is inaction on this issue. This is one of the most totemic issues in our community and what we need is action.
Laura Jayes: Yeah we do. But how does this work practically?
David Coleman: So effectively there’s a range of different standards that are used. So if you look at the UK, Laura, Ofcom’s published a series of different methods that the platforms can use. It might be through things like video selfies, might be through a correlation of age from other databases and so on. And really importantly, Laura, one of the methods can be methods that the platforms are already using themselves. So for instance, Meta has said that when it uses age verification in some limited circumstances today, it’s 96% accurate. So it’s not a question of whether or not this can be done. The question is, do we leave the current situation in place where there are no rules at all on social media companies on this issue, or do we cross into a different system where there are rules placed on them? And we have to do that because what we’re seeing with the mental health of Australian children, especially girls, is a crisis. It is completely unacceptable and inaction is not an option.
Laura Jayes: I spoke to the eSafety Commissioner, last week, and obviously this is something that is front and centre for her, on a number of fronts as well. There’s many things that she’s battling with the tech companies at the moment. But I mean, this seems to be a real societal push for this to happen. I think we’re all very aware of how the tech giants are actually going to respond to this. But for you, is it about front running this argument by saying, well, these are our principles, it’s not going to be perfect, yes, the big tech companies might not comply, but this puts it on everyone’s radar.
David Coleman: Well no, they don’t get a choice about whether or not they comply, Laura. If they want to operate in Australia, they must follow the laws of Australia. And so that’s why we announced in June, we’re doing this. The Coalition is doing this. We still don’t know if the Government is going to do it or not. We will. And what this is about is saying there must be an obligation on those companies. And when people say, oh look, won’t some people try to get around the rules? Or isn’t it possible that in some circumstances people get around the rules? The answer to that is yes. People will try and get around the rules. But that’s the case with basically every rule or regulation that’s put in place in society. And we don’t say, oh well, someone might get around it, so let’s do nothing at all. It’s absurd. The real question is, should the current system, where there’s no obligation on these companies at all, they can sign up seven, eight, nine, ten-year-olds to social media, should that be allowed to continue? The answer is absolutely not. And we, the Coalition, will put in place a system to stop that.
Laura Jayes: There is also, we’ve got to take a little bit of action ourselves and responsibility as parents. And I think young teens as well. Where’s that line? Because I know you’ve been talking about this for so long, but do you come to this as if you put pressure on the tech giants, if there’s a social media ban for kids under 16, it takes that adolescent teenage pressure off when they are such pressurised years anyway. And there’s, if their friends aren’t on it, they don’t want to be on it either. So it kind of becomes a moot point.
David Coleman: Yeah, there’s no doubt that when you put in place a rule, it helps parents a lot. Because a lot of parents today, Laura, are frankly fighting a losing battle. They don’t want their kids to be on these things, but every other kid is on them at the age of 10 or 11.
Laura Jayes: That’s right and that becomes exclusion and then that creates a whole problem in itself.
David Coleman: Yeah, it’s a classic network effect. There’s a classic network effect going on here. And so what happens when you actually put in place a law that says, well, these social media companies aren’t allowed to do this anymore. They’re actually not allowed to offer this product to little kids. That gives parents a very powerful tool that they can use in the home as well. The obligation is on the social media companies, not the parents, but it will help the parents a lot in keeping these kids off the platforms, and we need to keep them off the platforms when they’re young, because the fact is that the minds of younger children are just not sufficiently developed to deal with everything that gets thrown at you on social media. I think the vast majority of Australians know that. We get that. We understand that as a community, but our laws don’t reflect that today and we will change that.
Laura Jayes: Well, good on Malinauskas for pushing ahead here. He’s certainly been a leader in this space. David, we thank you for your time. You have been a leader in this space as well for many years. Appreciate it.
David Coleman: Thanks Laura.