E&OE
SARAH FERGUSON:
As we just heard, in a few hours, US President Donald Trump will announce his tariffs on friends and foe alike, in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden, a location to showcase Presidential power. In his effort to remake the world, the President casts a long shadow over our election campaign, whether we like it or not. David Coleman is the Shadow Foreign Minister. David Coleman, welcome to 7.30.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Evening, Sarah.
SARAH FERGUSON:
“Trashed the relationship with China”, I think “sad”, “pathetic” and “macho”. Can I get your response to that first of all?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Yeah, a bit to respond to there. It was a pretty comical effort from Senator Watt. I mean, if you look at Australia’s relationship with China, our trading relationship with China, we did the Free Trade Agreement in 2015. In 2015, Australia’s exports to China were $87 billion. In 2021, they were $189 billion. We added more than $100 billion to that export relationship and the increases under Labor have been significantly smaller than that, Sarah, so, it’s absurd to say that.
SARAH FERGUSON:
At the same time, in the last election, you did suffer electorally, as the review of the party found after the election loss, from using aggressive language about China’s military posture. You in danger of doing the same thing again?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, Sarah, what matters here is the substance. And in the China relationship, trade is extraordinarily important. So are the people-to-people links, which are very positive between our countries in relation to cultural exchanges and so on.
SARAH FERGUSON:
I think what I’m asking about is the language used for the visits of the first Chinese ship and then a second Chinese.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Sure. We should always be measured and we should always be calm, but we should never be weak, Sarah, and this Government embraces weakness as an explicit strategy. There’s no historical example of weakness leading to success, and we’ve got a Prime Minister, who on this issue, is absolutely all over the shop. He needed a Virgin Airlines pilot to tell him that live-firing exercises were being conducted off Australian waters. He doesn’t have a problem with the circumnavigation of Australia, he doesn’t seem concerned by that. And this week, in relation to the research vessel, he said that the ADF were shadowing it and then the next day, the Australian Border Force was shadowing it. So these are important issues, they’re serious issues, the China relationship is important, it requires maturity, not someone who’s just kind of bumbling all over the stage like the Prime Minister.
SARAH FERGUSON:
You’ve tried to characterise the Albanese Government as weak in other areas as well, in response in particular to Donald Trump’s tariffs. How would you and Peter Dutton deal differently with such a dangerously, unpredictable US President?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Yeah, look, I think one of the first points is that we won’t be Anthony Albanese, that’s very important.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Let’s talk about what you would do.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Absolutely.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Time to hear from you now.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Absolutely. So we have a leader in Peter Dutton who’s got an exceptional record in getting things done with the United States. He was central in negotiating AUKUS, one of the biggest agreements in Australian history. With the Trump Administration, he negotiated some very important principles in relation to cracking down on online child exploitation. And he also, with Attorney General Barr, worked very successfully on the CLOUD Act, which was around defence and the cooperation on crime.
SARAH FERGUSON:
You’d accept that this Trump Administration is different, more aggressive, more assertive than the first. Let me ask you a more specific question.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Sure.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Does that mean, this tougher approach, mean that on behalf of the national interest that you would be prepared to threaten or carry out retaliatory tariffs on the United States against US imports?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Oh, look, Sarah, let’s see what happens in terms of the result on the tariffs. I mean, a week ago, there was a lot of speculation saying that Australia was likely to be exempted, the focus very much on the ‘Dirty 15’. Australia has a great record in trade with the United States. We don’t charge tariffs. They’ve got a surplus with us. The arguments to marshal are all there, we successfully marshalled them in 2018.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Very different circumstance. Malcolm Turnbull, who won that exemption last time round, has stated very clearly that this is a different set of circumstances.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Yeah, but just to pick up on that, Sarah, we must deal…
SARAH FERGUSON:
What would your strategy be?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Sure, sure. We’ve got to deal with world as it is.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Yes.
DAVID COLEMAN:
As opposed to the world as we might like it to be.
SARAH FERGUSON:
I think that’s what I’m saying.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Yeah, and part of that is showing strength in that negotiation. Part of it is showing up. So the Prime Minister has said that it would not have been appropriate for him to actually travel to the United States. Now, that’s absurd. The United States’ relationship is absolutely central for Australia. And he thought the best thing to do was to stay home, and that was plainly wrong. He said on Sunday that he’ll await the outcome of discussions with officials. And I want to emphasise, Sarah, the problem here, the ultimate source of the tariffs is the United States. The United States is putting forward these tariff proposals. It’s a very bad idea. We’ve known since at least 1930 that tariffs are bad for the economy.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Yes.
DAVID COLEMAN:
So the US shouldn’t be doing this, but it is incumbent on an Australian Prime Minister to do everything he can. And the flight, it’s doable. A Prime Minister can make it to Washington. This one didn’t. Well, I think that’s very hard to defend.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Let me just ask you this, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Europe, China, Japan, Korea, I could go on. They’re all expecting tariffs tomorrow. Are you making an argument that Peter Dutton would have been the one world leader to get an exemption?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, what I’m saying is Peter Dutton will do a manifestly better job than Anthony Albanese, because Anthony Albanes is incompetent.
SARAH FERGUSON:
So why would Peter Dutton be better placed? Not because of Anthony Albanese’s weakness? But to put it, let me put it in these terms. Do you think that Mr Dutton has the kind of, right-of-centre tough guy persona that could appeal to Donald Trump? Is that part of what you’re saying?
DAVID COLEMAN:
I think Mr Dutton has the experience, the maturity and the runs on the board. He negotiated AUKUS. It doesn’t get bigger than that, Sarah, in relation to agreements. He’s negotiated important principles in relation to online child exploitation and stopping that. In relation to working with the United States against crime. He’s actually done it. So he’s not kind of bumbling all over the stage like some sort of political Mr Bean, like Mr Albanese.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Let me put it to you in these terms. So Peter Dutton has repeatedly claimed that he would be better placed, using the arguments that you’re repeating here now. Is it also because some of his policies align more closely with Donald Trump’s than Anthony Albanese’s do?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, I think it’s about his maturity, his success, and his experience.
SARAH FERGUSON:
What about some of his policies?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, I think the Prime Minister is manifestly incompetent. Peter Dutton has a very strong record in this area, and he’s negotiated successfully with both Democrats and Republicans. And so, and we saw from Murray Watt in that rather comical performance, these sort of, you know, silly attempts to conflate issues in the United States with Australia. You know, if we had a dollar for every time they’ve done that in the last few days, we’d be quite wealthy. So, it’s an important point, Sarah, because it is a bit silly.
SARAH FERGUSON:
Let me ask you about that, because are you concerned, nonetheless, that any perceived alignment with Donald Trump or elements of his agenda, indeed, in the current climate, in this world of now very, very immediate uncertainty, would be a big turn-off to voters?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Oh look, I think what it’s about is the Coalition standing up for Australia and about Peter Dutton standing up for Australia. That’s who we are. It’s not about any particular other nation or anything of that nature. It’s about being the leader that he is.
SARAH FERGUSON:
But are you concerned from an electoral point of view that appearing to have any kind of alignment with Donald Trump is a big electoral turn off right now?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Oh look, I think there are obviously numerous things that President Trump’s done that we disagree with. We very strongly disagree with what he’s doing on tariffs, a very bad thing for the economy.
SARAH FERGUSON:
You agreed with the concept of an efficiency drive in the Government?
DAVID COLEMAN:
And again, I think that’s a good example of an absurd conflation of two different countries, Sarah. To suggest that there shouldn’t be any effort to look at efficiency in the Government because it’s somehow related to something going on in another country is ridiculous. That is obviously what the Government will do. I’m sure that people will see through that, because it is incumbent on us to spend the public’s money wisely. The Government has spent money like it’s going out of fashion, and that is not what we will do. We’ve pointed out numerous areas where we will not spend as much as the Government, and we will be cautious about how we spend. And when I’m talking to people in my electorate and around the country, they expect nothing less. And that’s what we’ll do.
SARAH FERGUSON:
David Coleman, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Thanks, Sarah.
The Hon. David Coleman MP
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Federal Member for Banks