E&OE
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Well this big issue around whether there should be a briefing given to the Opposition has been very much in the headlines today. I want to bring in my next guest, the Shadow Foreign Minister, David Coleman. Welcome to the program.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Good afternoon, Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Now just to be clear, we asked the Government to put a Minister to appear opposite you, of course, and they were unable to provide anyone this afternoon. So it’s just me and you, so let’s try and enjoy ourselves thoroughly, I’m sure we will David Coleman.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Absolutely.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
I appreciate your time. Anthony Albanese has derided the Opposition this morning for asking for an Indonesia briefing, saying he was waiting for you to ask for a briefing on who faked the moon landing. Obviously, he’s trying to make an exaggerated point there. Why is there an obligation on the Government to provide this briefing, because just a moment ago, Malcolm Turnbull said there isn’t an obligation under the conventions.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, Patricia, what Anthony Albanese is trying to do is it’s sort of that magician that sort of says, look over there, look over there, don’t look at me. This is a really serious matter. The prospect of Russian military expansion in our region is chilling. And if Russia has sought access to a military base on a permanent basis in Indonesia, that is a very significant issue for our national security. Now, what we’ve heard from the Government is mainly nothing on this point, except for yesterday when Murray Watt said there is no proposal from Russia to have a base anywhere in Indonesia. Now nobody from the Government is backing that up today, including Murray Watt. So all we’re getting from the Government is evasion, and it is really important, Patricia, because we are in an election campaign and obviously, should the Coalition be successful, understanding the status of this issue, these Russian apparent overtures to Indonesia, is really important.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But if Indonesia has rejected the plan, what are you going to achieve in the next two weeks? It’s rejected. If you’re trying to find out what may have happened in terms of a deliberation which has been rejected, what do you achieve by pushing for this?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, Patricia, I think plainly, understanding Russia’s activities in the region, the overtures that it appears to have made, are very important and indeed, so is how has our Government responded. So first question, did the Government know about it? If they did, what did they do? If they didn’t know about this overture, if it occurred, why didn’t they know? Now, these are the questions the Government doesn’t want to answer, and that’s why you’ve had six days now of the Prime Minister ducking and weaving all over the place. You know, senior journalists following up this issue, just asking for a simple answer. He won’t give it and he’s throwing the switch to vaudeville and coming up with outlandish silly comments, so that people report the outlandish silly comments, rather than the substance here. The substance here is that the report is that Russia has sought an aircraft base within about 1300 kilometres of Darwin. That is a very significant issue, and of course they should brief on it. And, you know, was Murray Watt’s announcement yesterday that there is no Russian proposal, was that correct? Or was it wrong? We’re none the wiser today.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Well actually, the full quote on Sky, because it’s been selectively quoted, is there is no proposal from Russia to have a base anywhere in Indonesia in the way that Peter Dutton and his colleagues have been claiming over the last couple of weeks. That’s the quote, it’s not just that there’s no proposal, just ‘cause it is a different quote then, isn’t it?
DAVID COLEMAN:
I think that’s an interesting characterisation, Patricia. He’s saying there is no proposal for Russia to have a base anywhere in Indonesia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
I’m just quoting the whole quote, that’s all I’m (inaudible).
DAVID COLEMAN:
Sure, sure. But I think on the plain meaning, he’s saying there is no proposal from Russia to have a base anywhere in Indonesia. Now, if that’s right, then the Government should say so. If it’s not right, they should say so. And of course, if the briefing is provided, any confidentiality will of course be respected. But it’s appropriate to provide it. Now we provided briefings to the Government, to the now Government, back during the 2022 election campaign in relation to some foreign affairs issues.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
This is different, right? I mean, even Malcolm Turnbull, he was the Prime Minister of your own side of politics, says that if Indonesia has ruled it out, that having this played out publicly is not at all helpful.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, it’s clearly incumbent upon the Government to provide a briefing on such a significant issue of national security. And as I said, if there’s confidential material that’s part of that briefing, we will respect that. But the issue is, Patricia, I mean, who knows what the Government knew about this, if anything at all? And I would think, from your experience as a journalist, if a Prime Minister will not answer a question for six days in a row, it is usually not a good sign. And that’s where we’re at on this issue. So the Prime Minister can clear it up by providing a briefing. He can certainly clarify whether Senator Watt’s comments were correct or not. I mean, Senator Watt made those comments publicly. So is it correct? Is there no proposal from Russia for an air base anywhere in Indonesia? And the Government, instead of slipping and sliding and dodging and weaving, and frankly just looking shifty, the PM can just step up, and he’s supposed to be the leader of this country and he needs to show some maturity on this issue.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
You want him to provide you this briefing, but Malcolm Turnbull says it’s not normal to provide this briefing. Do you accept that, that it’s not normal to provide the briefing?
DAVID COLEMAN:
No, I don’t actually. As I said, there were briefings provided during the last election campaign. There was one in relation to a vessel off our coast that was provided to Brendan O’Connor after he requested it. And look, the Government can sort of put up any sort of bureaucratic argument, which interestingly, Patricia, they’re doing on background, rather than anyone actually owning up to it. But leave that to one side. I mean, the Government can put up any sort of technical argument they want, but plainly it is reasonable for the Opposition to be briefed on this issue. Plainly, they don’t want to do it. Now why don’t they want to do it? Because they’ve obviously got something to hide.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
They argue, they argue, just to put their perspective in, you’re right, they should come on, but they argue that there is no proposal, because Indonesia said no, and that ends the issue. That’s what they say. So there is nothing to be briefed about because there’s nothing happening.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Oppositions are frequently briefed on issues in similar circumstances, and the notion that there must be some pending agreement is not correct. So look, and again, it’s clearly within their remit to provide the briefing. But the bottom line is they don’t want to do it, right? They don’t want to do it. I think we can all agree on that, Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Yeah, I think we can.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Yeah, and so why don’t they want to do it? I think that is the question, and I think one of the reasons could be because the briefing would be embarrassing for them, because perhaps they weren’t aware of this issue, perhaps they were aware of it but took inadequate action. But either way, you don’t need to be a PhD in International Relations to see that this is a serious issue and the Government wants to do anything except talk about it and that is not a good sign about the conduct of foreign affairs by this Government.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
I spoke to Tim Costello, we’re going to play that interview shortly, and he says churches have written to the Liberals, to your side of politics, asking that there are no cuts to foreign aid. Is that something you’ll guarantee?
DAVID COLEMAN:
We’ll have more to say about foreign aid in the days ahead, Patricia. It’s a very important part of our foreign affairs policy. We spend about $5 billion a year on foreign aid, so it’s quite a substantial amount of expenditure. And it’s particularly crucial in our own region in the Pacific, and that’s why we so significantly increased foreign aid to Pacific, so that by the time of our last budget prior to the 2022 election, the funding to the Pacific was significantly more than when we’d been elected and provided for in that budget. So it is an important issue and the points of those church leaders are well made. We’ll have more to say on that in the future, obviously a very conscious (inaudible) report today.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Do you see a nexus between increasing defence spending, which you are clearly planning to do this week, we don’t know any of the details, I know you’re not going to tell me the exact amount, but increasing defence spending and needing to find a saving and perhaps foreign aid, are they linked, to you?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Look, what I would say, Patricia, is that foreign aid, particularly in our region, has obviously a really important humanitarian function, but also an important strategic one. And we have seen under this Government, the CCP sign a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with the Cook Islands, policing agreements with Kiribati and Vanuatu. And that’s just reminder of why foreign aid in the Pacific. is important. It’s part of its function in helping to build those relationships. And so it’s certainly something that we’re conscious of and that’s why we provided significantly for foreign aid in the Pacific when we were in Government.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Just finally, obviously today has been a big focus on crime for the Coalition with a couple of announcements, $750 million. Peter Dutton said in February of a sex offender register that, and I quote, we tried to push it when we’re in Government, the states largely weren’t interested. So he’s made this announcement again today. What’s changed? Why would the states suddenly be interested?
DAVID COLEMAN:
Well, this is a somewhat different proposal, Patricia. This is what’s called a disclosure scheme. So, rather than a publicly available register, what this is about is, if a parent is concerned about perhaps someone who is involved with their kids in some way or in contact with their kids, they can go to the police and seek information about that person, if that person does have any relevant convictions. It’s up to the police to determine whether or not that information should be provided. So it’s different to a widely available register, it’s in place in WA, it is in place in the UK. And I think if we just take a step back here, Patricia, and we say, as a parent, would it be a good thing if you had concerns about someone who was perhaps working with your child and you wanted to see if you could get information from the police about any conviction that person might have? Would that be a good thing if you could do that? Absolutely. And that’s what this is about. We think it’s common sense. It’s very consistent, to be frank, with Peter Dutton’s career over many decades of seeking to protect children and really lean forward on these issues. Now, Murray Watt, very oddly, described this as a cynical move, this morning. There’s nothing cynical about protecting children from predators. And WA is doing it, the UK is doing it and we want to trial it at the federal level too.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Thank you so much for joining us.
DAVID COLEMAN:
Thanks Patricia.
The Hon. David Coleman MP
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Federal Member for Banks